Chloe Weber is an acupuncturist and Chinese herbalist recently finishing her doctorate. She was inspired to create Radical Roots Herbs both because of her direct experience with rare conditions for both her and her son, Remy. We discuss the science, how CBD benefits women's health, and how to ensure you have a high quality product.
What We Discuss
The science behind CBD
What CBD can be used for
How to determine whether a CBD product is high quality
Georgie Kovacs: Tell us your background and how you came to found Radical Roots.
Chloe Weber 01:42
So I'm an acupuncturist and Chinese herbalist. I actually just finished my doctorate, but I've been practicing for about eight years now. And my focus has always been on Chinese herbs. While I absolutely love acupuncture, I still have that Western mind that really appreciates that with the Chinese herbs, you can look up all the pharmacological actions of them. So that's something that really called to me. To me, it's really customizable pharmaceuticals for my patients, for myself, and now also for my son, who is almost seven now, which I absolutely cannot believe.
And Remy was diagnosed at two and a half with a super rare genetic disorder called STXBP1. There's about 300 or 400 kids in the world with it. It's impressively challenging and includes epilepsy, his nonverbal, non-ambulatory Parkinsonian-like tremors, and cognitive disabilities. The whole nine. And before anybody feels bad for me, let me tell you. He is the happiest human being I've ever met. He is 1,000% living his best life. And he is the greatest teacher and blessing that I will ever have the honor of knowing.
With a child with such a rare disorder, obviously, Western medicine has very little to offer us. We were offered anxiety meds and seizure meds. However, when I looked at all the other kids with his disorder on these Facebook groups, I saw that most of the kids had very poor seizure control, even when they were on cocktails of seizure meds.
As an herbalist, I started looking at the options of different things that I could do as opposed to doing the pharmaceuticals for him. I was finding that CBD was safe and effective, but there weren't any products out there that were fitting my psycho mom herbalist standards, and I started the line for him.
Georgie Kovacs: Let’s start with the basics of the difference between CBD and cannabis.
Chloe Weber: Cannabis is the family of the plant. CBD and THC are both cannabinoids within the plant. There are over 100 different cannabinoids (or phytochemicals) in the plant, where CBD and THC are the most well researched in cannabis.
THC is a cannabinoid known for the psychotropic effects that are classic when you're smoking marijuana. So if you have hemp then you have less than 0.3% THC in the product. So then it's classified as hemp oil or CBD oil.
CBD is this other cannabinoid - cannabidiol - which we've grown and potentiated so that some of the hemp is grown so it has really high amounts of CBD and very low amounts of THC. So then when it's extracted, you're getting the positive benefits of the CBD without the psychotropic effects of the THC. Though the THC does have important actions within the body, and I do often recommend that sometimes you're going to want slightly higher amounts of THC depending on what you're working with. But it is really important to have that 0.3% THC in a product because it makes it safer and it makes it more effective and there's a lot of research that indicates that.
Georgie Kovacs: Tell us the biology of how this is beneficial to our bodies.
Chloe Weber: We have this Endocannabinoid within our bodies, which was discovered in the 90s. The endocannabinoid system is sort of the master regulatory system of the body and keeps everything in the Goldilocks zone. You don't want to get too stressed. You don't want to get too tired. It helps regulate so many thingsL the immune system, your stress levels, hormone levels, gut function. It's essential.
The endocannabinoid system has two main receptors. CB1 receptors are found primarily in the brain and throughout the nervous systems. THC works directly on the CB1 receptors, which is why I often recommend that you just want a little bit of THC in there because it's going to act directly upon those receptors. Whereas the CB2 receptors are found more throughout the immune system and the rest of the body.
CBD actually acts somewhat as an SSRI. It blocks the receptors so that there's more anandamide (AEA), which is available within the body. We actually make our own endogenous cannabinoids within our body. Those are called anandamide and 2-AG (2-arachidonoylglycerol). We make our own cannabinoids in order to activate and regulate the endocannabinoid system. But when you're under a lot of stress, and you burn through these endogenous cannabinoids that we're already making, and then instead of being reused, our endogenous cannabinoids are broken down by these enzymes.
So that's different from how we use hormones and different neurotransmitters. Normally, we'll refold things and reuse them a lot of the time. But with our endogenous cannabinoids, we don't do that. So that's something that's really interesting because it indicates that that's something that's going on in our society, since we're under these increased amounts of stress. We’re burning through our stores of anandamide and are then these endogenous cannabinoids. A lot of people are at a deficiency state in their endocannabinoid system, which is why I think that so many people have had such dramatic and miraculous results with high quality CBD products
Georgie Kovacs: Since you started with the SSRIs, I was wondering about drug-drug interactions. There are a lot of people in this country who are on these antidepressant, anti-anxiety drugs. How should one consider the usage of CBD when you're on those types of medications?
Chloe Weber: It's really important that you talk to your doctor about what you're getting on. Even if it's herbs, and especially CBD; there is research on it.
CBD travels through the cytochrome P450 enzyme in the liver. Typically, if you're on a pharmaceutical that has a grapefruit warning, those pharmaceuticals normally go through that same pathway in the liver. It's about a quarter of the pharmaceuticals that are out there on the market, including SSRIs, that go through this pathway.
CBD will often increase the serum levels of those pharmaceuticals, which is a really helpful thing if you're trying to wean off of some of the SSRIs. Obviously, I recommend that everybody do this with the guidance of your prescribing practitioner and an herbalist, if possible. CBD also not only increases the serum levels of many SSRIs and some other medications, which can be dangerous in certain circumstances. So you do really want to talk to your doctors.
CBD also acts on the 5-HT1A, a pathway in the brain, which is one of the ways in which SSRIs work. It also increases neurogenesis in the hippocampus, another way that SSRIs work so they have a lot of synergy. And how they're working in the brain.
And CBD does tend to be better tolerated in many ways than many of the SSRIs, which are often also not recommended for long term use.
Georgie Kovacs: Are you seeing data on CBD versus some of these pharmaceutical products, or even if there isn't the data quite yet, if there's even a trend in less of the pharmaceuticals and more of the CBD?
Chloe Weber: Well, this year is a very interesting year overall. Everybody's under such an increase in stress. It's hard to really know where everybody's going. I haven't seen much of the research. There was a study recently which showed that about 60% of people who started CBD were able to get off of their pharmaceuticals. It was a wide variety of different pharmaceuticals that they were talking about.
Unfortunately, a lot of the research currently going on on CBD is more focused on the CBD isolates that have been made into pharmaceuticals. So GW Pharma, which I believe was just bought, created a seizure medication called Epidiolex, which is the CBD isolate.
So what I was getting at before is that the whole is really better than the parts. In Chinese medicine, Chinese herbology, and in cannabis research, we're seeing that there's something called an entourage effect. It's similar to how Mother Nature has this innate intelligence, and it brings all of these different parts of the plant together to support our bodies in a way that's much better than pulling out this one chemical.
Using that, there's a meta analysis that I saw recently that showed that Epidiolex, a CBD derivative. In order to get the same amount of seizure control as complete spectrum hemp extract, Epidiolex needed to be six times the amount of the full spectrum hemp extract, and had about five or six times the amount of severe side effects.
So really, if you're getting a whole plant extract, you're getting the terpenes, which are these beautiful, volatile oils that have all these medicinal effects. That's what you smell. Terpenes are found in a lot of essential oils and different plants. If you smell marijuana, obviously, or hemp or cannabis, that very distinct smell. Those are terpenes, and they're very important to get in the product and then isolate.
Something that I see commonly is that there are all these isolate products out there. Most of the drinks are all isolates, or if you find a bottle where it's 2000 milligrams of CBD, normally, they're dumping a bunch of isolate in there. So it's not really a full spectrum. It's kind of a cheap and cheater way.
One of the other things that I just find really beautiful about it is that there are receptors for CBD along the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve connects the gut and the brain and it's one of the ways that we're able to really get into fight or flight. Strengthening the vagus nerve is important and it's one of the ways that I think that is underestimated in terms of how important that is for the anxiety and anxiolytic properties.
Georgie Kovacs: How does CBD help with pain and what are precautions people should take?
Chloe Weber: What’s interesting about CBD is that it acts locally. You can use it topically for pain, and it actually gets into the skin really well, which also indicates that it would be good for skin. I've been playing with starting CBD line mainly because I just like facial oils. I'm in Colorado, and it just sucks all the moisture out of your skin out here. There is some really promising research in terms of it really being helpful.
Internally, it's regulating the neurochemicals and helping stop that pain pathway. A lot of times with pain, part of the problem is that your brain gets stuck in this pain loop and it keeps perpetuating.
CBD seems to be able to not only activate receptors that are going to slow the pain, like the physiological pain, but it's also going to calm down the neurological pain and stop that pain pathway from just looping endlessly. And there was some research that I saw showing that it also potentiated the actions of opioids. That’s interesting and promising to me, because clearly, we have such an epidemic of opioid abuse in our country. Anything that we can do that's safe and effective, which will help reduce the need for opioids or reduce the amount of opioids that people are taking is important.
THC is important for some of those pain conditions, even at least the small amount, but in more severe pain situations, sometimes you want to have an increased amount of THC. What I'll recommend for some patients is if you're in a state in which you can get medical marijuana, what you might want to look for is a 2:1 CBD to THC ratio. So that's going to increase the amount of THC that's in there. It potentiates the actions and calms those neuro pathways in the brain. It actually does also seem to activate some of the opioid receptors in the brain and have similar downstream effects to opioids. But so the 2:1 ratio is going to increase the THC, but you're still not going to get a very powerful psychotropic effect. So you're not going to get super stoned, but it will help potentiate those actions and make it stronger if you have a very severe pain situation.
Georgie Kovacs: When it comes to pain, how should one look at CBD because I can only imagine being in pain, and not being able to find a solution. But then there's that fine line between helping with the pain and hiding the problem.
Chloe Weber: What I love about CBD is that it gives people a little bit of space so that they can explore these other options and get to the root cause of what's going on. It's gonna help with pain, and anxiety. However, it is essential that whoever's taking any products, whether they're herbs or pharmaceuticals, that you're working with practitioners who are looking for those root causes, whether it's a gut issue, whether it's a vertebrate issue, and you need to go to PT or to an osteopath. You want to work on those root issues as you're taking it.
CBD seems to be very well tolerated long term, and I'm not personally concerned about that from the research that I've seen. But to me, you don't want to be on anything forever, and CBD is a strong product. I think it's a supplement that there's an argument that taking some of it regularly, like almost like an Omega supplement is a good thing because it's going to keep your endocannabinoid system functioning optimally. I don't see any negative impacts to that.
If you're leaning on it hardcore for pain management, you still have to look at what's going on underneath because there's still going to be so many other things. And there's so many great practitioners out there who can help with pain management, and make sure that you're going to get the best support that you can. There's so many different ways to work with it. And it works really synergistically with so many different things.
Georgie Kovacs: When it comes to women's health, what are other benefits that someone may not even think of such as pelvic pain, endometriosis, perimenopause symptoms, postpartum depression, or postpartum anxiety?
Chloe Weber: There's little to no research on using CBD or THC during pregnancy or while nursing so obviously you have to work with your practitioner for that. For me, I often will talk to patients and look at the cost risk analysis versus being on an antianxiety med or being on CBD and which seems safer in reality, and what they feel more comfortable with and talk to their doctors.
To me, it seems very clear that I would feel much more comfortable with taking Chinese herbs and CBD than I would take in the pharmaceutical postpartum or during pregnancy for anxiety. And clearly that severe anxiety is going to have, or depression is going to have, an impact on the baby. Us moms need all the support we can get. I have so many patients with endometriosis, PID and hormonal issues taking CBD, and it has been fantastic. I have patients who create suppositories from our products.
Palmetto Harmony is a line that I used to use before I created mine and they have suppositories that you can get online. They're fantastic. I know that their products are really high quality. And those are really fantastic for patients with endo with severe pain.
Again, once you calm the mind and sort of help regulate your nervous system, the hormonal fluctuations get under regulation. I'm actually learning how to do neurofeedback right now, which is really exciting. My teacher kept saying this is going to help regulate your hormones, this is going to regulate all of these other things because it's regulating your brain. So it makes complete sense that it's going to have these downstream effects that are going to be really helpful and beneficial, especially for women who are under such extreme levels of stress.
Georgie Kovacs: With respect to makeup and other face products with CBD, what truly is the benefit?
Chloe Weber: We have endocannabinoid receptors in our skin as well, which will be activated by CBD that's put on topically.
One of the things that I think is really important for people to know is that hemp is a hyperaccumulator, which means it is going to leach out toxins from the earth. It's very important that it's grown organically.
It's very important that any company that you buy any CBD products from have their certificates of analysis up on their website and available for you to have. I'm a little slow about getting them up on mine, but you can see them on my website, and you can see what we're testing for. And you can see that there's absolutely no molds, no heavy metals, no glyphosate, like all of those things are tested for. But you've got to get a company that's going to test for all of that because otherwise that hemp is going to pull up all of those chemicals, and then you're just going to be clogging your face with more of those chemicals clogging your system. I haven't delved too deeply into the research on skincare, but it is going to activate the endocannabinoid system on the skin. And I would assume that it's going to reduce inflammation, because that makes sense. It's reducing inflammation everywhere else.
Georgie Kovacs: With a certificate of analysis, how is it because I know labeling is really important. So is there a standard certificate, and if someone puts it on their website, then the product should be trusted?
Chloe Weber: The dangerous thing about hemp is that there are so many companies out there trying to take advantage of this trend, so there's a lot of mass produced hemp. You should be able to go on most websites and see what they do test for. So what you want to look for is:
Are they testing for mold?
Are they testing for heavy metals?
Are they testing for pesticides?
And as long as they're doing those three things, those are the main ones you want to look for. But those again, can be really high in some products. And there's really no regulation around that, so it's pretty terrifying to me.
For Radical Roots, those things are things that I'm super proud of. So that's really well highlighted on our page, or I hope it is.
Georgie Kovacs: What about the various forms of CBD, like gummies? Does that impact the product’s effectiveness?
Chloe Weber: The ingestion routes are typically either under the tongue or capsules.
If you hold it under your tongue for about 30 to 60 seconds, you'll find that with most oils, it's absorbed directly into the capillaries under the tongue. It gets right into the bloodstream there so you're gonna have a faster acting response.
If you're taking a capsule that's going more to the gut. There are a lot of research studies showing how effective CBD is at helping potentiate beneficial bacteria in the gut, helping heal leaky gut, helping regulate peristalsis.
I like the capsules a lot because for our capsules, we're actually able to get the hemp solubles and all of the minerals. They're going to take a longer time for you to get the effects of that and also if people have a difficult time digesting things. So a lot of people have SIBO, which is small intestine bacterial overgrowth, or just digestive inflammation. And in general, then capsules probably aren't the best way to go. And I would go with the under the tongue oil.
Georgie Kovacs: Tell us about Radical Roots.
Chloe Weber We're really looking for those root causes of these issues. I use Chinese herbs to potentiate the actions of the CBD. What I was seeing when I was trying it for me and Remy was that everything was really one size fits all and while CBD and cannabis really does help regulate the system overall, from Chinese herbal medicine, I know that using whole plants together in conjunction, you're able to create powerful, more dynamic formulas that not only addressed the symptoms, but really look at the roots that are causing these issues.
When we started Radical Roots, what I did was looked at the main things that people were using hemp medicine for so neurological conditions, that's my Remy’s Revenge formula, which I've used with so many patients with MS and Parkinson's and epilepsy and pain management. For our Rest and Relax is by far our best seller. Not surprisingly, that's sort of our anti-anxiety, help with sleep formulation. We've got to Revive. That's really great. So you know, we just sort of tried to use the Chinese herbs to really potentiate the actions.
I started the company for me, and I was very reluctant, because I've started companies before, and I'm a single mom and I had my acupuncture practice, and all of these things going on. I think our products saved me more than they saved him. I don't know where I would be without them. They helped me so much in terms of my stress levels and my energy and getting good quality sleep. So I'm really really proud of them. And I'm really really honored when people choose our products in order to, a lot of acupuncturists use them. So I know that they're trusting me with their patients, which means the absolute world to me, and it means a whole lot when other people trust me with their herbal products also.
Georgie Kovacs: Can you take too much CBD?
Chloe Weber: More is not always better. In our society, we're always like 500 milligrams is better than 200 milligrams. I recommend you get a higher quality product, titrate until where you're getting the effects that you're looking for, and stay there. More is not always better.
With CBD, it's normally a bell shaped curve. So you get better effects, better effects, better effects, and then you hit this sort of apex. And then sometimes you'll take more and the effects will sort of dwindle as opposed to being potentiated. So try and find that middle ground, which is a really important concept in Chinese medicine as well. And something that I think that just in general, our society should be working towards a little bit more than we already know.
Georgie Kovacs: It's such a valid statement because as you're talking I'm like, okay, makeup with CBD. I'm going to go out tonight on a date and have my boozy CBD and I'm going to take my supplements CBD and oh, maybe there's going to be some nail polish CBD products CBD. I think that statement is extremely fair.
What is your greatest hope for women's health?
Chloe Weber: I've been focusing a lot on children's health recently. It's heartbreaking to see how exhausted and overrun women are overall, and particularly moms. We have this ingrained, innate desire to take care of everybody. I was listening to Brene Brown and Simon Sinek, who did a podcast recently, and Brene was saying that you can't love your child more than you love yourself. It's so counterintuitive, but I really want women to start loving and honoring themselves and who they are and what they deserve and finding more space for themselves because I know it's been a game changer for me. You know those first three, four years with Remy, I did everything. I didn't sleep, I studied all day, all night. Everything. I just want women to love themselves a little bit more and be easier on themselves.
Meta-analysis referred to in the episode: Potential Clinical Benefits of CBD-Rich Cannabis Extracts Over Purified CBD in Treatment-Resistant Epilepsy: Observational Data Meta-analysis
Brene Brown and Simon Sinek episode on Developing and Infinite Mindset
More about Chloe Weber
Chloe Weber is the founder and CEO of Radical Roots Herbs. Her life’s work is all about businesses that enable common folks to achieve healthier daily lives. Chloe’s also known to enable and empower those around her to succeed.
The secret to her success is the subtle art of giving a fuck. What else would one do with those close calls in life? Studying East Asian medicine was driven by overcoming cutaneous leishmaniasis, an uncommon parasitic disease. When her son, Remy was diagnosed with STXBP1, a genetic disorder so rare that there’s no other name for it other than the gene that’s affected, Chloe founded a company to make Remy’s personal formula available to all and started a resource website and podcast to help other families. Chloe continues to create herbal formulas for all the people she’s met and still have yet to meet. She simply cares that medicine should be effective and accessible.
Chloe’s making wins and fails for the memoir of her life. Along the way, she’s been invited to share her thoughts on health and medicine at large.
About Fempower Health and the Founder
Georgie Kovacs, is the founder of Fempower Health, the go-to resource for all things women health serving women, their providers, and companies looking to build/improve on products for women. She also hosts the Fempower Health Podcast, where she interviews experts to help women better understand how to navigate their health both day-to-day and in partnership with their providers. Her mission is to minimize the years many take to seek proper diagnosis and treatment.
Georgie founded Fempower Health after her first-hand experience with infertility and endometriosis. Leveraging this experience along with her 20+ year tenure in the biopharmaceutical industry and consulting, she leads this movement to empower women. With limited research dollars and women’s “training” to grin and bear it, both women and doctors are in the impossible position to diagnose and treat conditions with little information. Women deserve more and better information, insight and innovative health solutions.
**The information shared by Fempower Health is not medical advice but for information purposes to enable you to have more effective conversations with your doctor. Always talk to your doctor before making health-related decisions.
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